Queensland 1860
Not yet completely worked up and put in Deep Blue
Into the Deep Blue
Is the way one collects ( and later sell) changing?
Is there a fundamental shift in our hobby?
For this blog post, I will rely on the measured opinions of Ron Leith of Vancouver, B.C.
He has a quite successful Auction House, with postal history as a specialty.
He submitted an opinion piece in the August 2023 Oregon Stamp Society "The Album Page" newsletter which was featured in the "President's Corner" section.
I contacted Ron and he graciously has allowed this blog post to include his comment. In addition, he sent me an email that elaborated on his comment. Thanks Ron!
Shall we see what he has to say?
Ron Leith Comment for the Oregon Stamp Society Newsletter
Click to enlarge script
"The stamp market is changing rapidly with the majority of
pre-2020 Public Auctions closing down as a result of escalating operating costs
and internet competition. It's the few remaining PUBLIC AUCTIONS
that are realizing record prices for rarities, however, they now have no time
or staff to sort general country collections. These are sold by the box,
usually with no catalog value, no total stamp count, and no lot scans.
Only dealers that attend the auction get the chance to inspect them. As
there is little competition from collectors for box lots at a live
auction, they typically sell for under 5% of the catalog value and often
under 1% of catalog. This partially explains the current glut of
country collections offered at incredibly low prices by dealers in both Europe
and North America"
Elaborative Comment via email
Queensland 1860-61
Noy yet completely worked up and put in Deep Blue
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Ron Leith Comment for the Oregon Stamp Society Newsletter
Click to enlarge script
"Fortunately, there are many good internet auctions that
effectively handle collections. Of course, world class rarities should be
sent to a successful public auction, then it is recommended to carefully choose
an internet auction that knows how to get the most out of a country
collection. Internet auctioneers are also very busy and short
staffed, so there are "must-do" things to consider when selling
a stamp collection. It is essential that the collector identifies
the catalog number and price for all the $400+ catalog value no fault complete
sets and single stamps in the collection. Then a list for the total
number of stamps and a catalog value for the remaining collection is necessary.
By following this simple procedure, realizing 20%-40% for good sets &
singles is achievable with higher prices for choice items. Internet
estimated prices for remainder collections normally start at 10% of the catalog
value with potential sales in the15%-25% catalog range that is directly
proportional to the quality of lot scans. Thus, one can easily
realize double or more in sales revenue compared to sending the entire
collection to a Public Auction."
Elaborative Comment via email
Queensland 1861-62
Noy yet completely worked up and put in Deep Blue
"Internet auctions don't offer their services for free,
consequently, the more description input the collector makes, the lower the
auction fees. These fees can range from 15% of sales up to 50% depending
on how many man-hours it takes to prepare the collection. If one does not
want to describe their collection in detail, most internet auctions will also
buy collections outright. As a result of the modest internet sales prices
mentioned above, it is no surprise that the current fair market price offered
to collections is in the 10% of catalog range. Even bourse and store
dealer offers at 5% of catalog are now reasonable since they have to do the
description work and often have to carry inventory for years before selling the
stamps at 20%-30% of current catalog prices."
Further elaborative comment via email
Queensland 1863-65
Not yet completely worked up and put in Deep Blue
Out of the Blue
There is much to digest here for the WW classical era collector.
Some of the points he makes are:
( My own opinion/ take follows in parenthesis.)
1) Major Auction houses list primarily high value individual lots. The auction house costs are too high to do more.
(Generalized country collections - whether part of a WW collection or an individual country collection - even if very nice but not spectacular - is no longer much of an interest to major auctions, as that market goes to fairly expensive individual stamps or interesting postal history.)
2) There are too many large collections hitting the market - and little time to process them. Consequently, they are sold in large lots, mainly to dealers.
( There is a glut of country collections available to dealers, and the collector can expect a low CV offer, if any. Country collections are often sold as bulk lots, and can be had for not much ( good news if buying, bad news if selling)..
3) If one is internet savvy, one can list the the lots for resale, and one can make a decent return.
( If the individual collector does not make the time/effort to market on the internet, the collector will need to be satisfied with wholesale prices for one's collection. But a decent alternative is to have an internet dealer sell "On Consignment" for you, where he takes a % of the proceeds. )
Comments appreciated!
Good insights there and it lines up with what I've noticed anecdotally (that's a bonus - they are good insights regardless!)
ReplyDeleteI like your summary too, Jim. In the one auction I frequent, the counts and catalogue values are supplied by the selling collector, otherwise it's all up for grabs. And I've been noticing some very decent country collections coming up for auction more frequently. It makes me want to work through my backlog and get into 'buying' mode more and more. :)
Madbaker - appreciate your perspective which agrees with what I see.
DeleteVery interesting comments. I would suggest as to your alternative #3, that most auction lots are on consignment, with the House making a percentages off the seller and buyer.
ReplyDeleteThere is also a rise of 'palletware' (like the 'kiloware' of old times.) These could be 20-30 or more cubic feet of material.
Some costs have declined-fewer paper catalogs... and increased, i.e. to photograph or scan in individual pages of collections. Better houses do this and it is the only way to make an internet-based clientele halfway comfortable with bidding.
Good comments Roy!
DeleteCommentary from Greg Doll. Bud asked him for a comment, and Greg agreed to have his thoughts published here. I think it provides a nice evaluation, and perhaps a more optimistic take. Thanks Greg!
ReplyDelete"So I spent a little time digesting this.
The topic title is "Is the stamp hobby for WW collectors changing?" Of course it is and it always has. From the obvious (the first collectors were generally women to mostly men of wealth to mid-20th century youth becoming involved to now, more women getting back into stamp collecting) to the more subtle in terms of how stamps are bought and sold. As Chairman of the Internet Philatelic Dealers Association (IPDA), I have seen a myriad of articles in the last decade bemoaning and warning of the collapse of stamp collecting ("The Sky is Falling!!!!!") Many of these articles predict that the sky is indeed falling while few propose a real solution to this (in my opinion) perceived problem. The way people collect is changing but again it has in the past and the hobby survived. Is there a fundamental shift in our hobby? Maybe, but that is not necessarily a bad thing
With respect to Ron Leith's article and his ancillary comments, he makes very good and obvious points. Yes, auction houses have to take into account the "time versus money" aspect with their offered lots. They are for-profit businesses after all. In my experience, however, with auction houses less willing to detail large collections, this creates excellent opportunities for dealers like myself and many others to acquire excellent material to break down and sell for a good profit. Nothing wrong with that. The "new" internet stamp marketplace is brimming with savvy dealers who do just that both to their own benefit and to their customers.
Regarding the "slow death" of in person shows, there are a number of reason for this. One, is clearly the aging of the more sophisticated collector, meaning the early to mid 20th century male collector and now, more and more, the mid-20th century youth who took up the hobby then and are now themselves aging. Another is the rapidly changing lifestyle culture that allows for less time for parents who are collectors to visit in-person shows. Changing work responsibilities, their children's extracurricular activities, both parents working in a household...all these contribute to fewer and fewer folks attending shows. In addition, the aging of the show dealers themselves add to the "slow death" of in-person shows. Anecdotally, even the ASDA has been struggling lately. I still enjoy attending my local stamp show occasionally myself, but my year does not revolve around it. At the end of the day, dealers should and must adapt to changing market and hobby conditions if they wish to survive (just like any other business). But the water will always find its own level and those who are successful at adapting will thrive.
So yes, the stamp hobby for WW collectors is changing....but it is not dying....and that's ok. I will remain stubbornly optimistic about the state of the hobby and the opportunities for savvy dealers going forward.
Greg"
I saw this same trend at our last local in-person dealer in a large metro area on the west coast. A ton of Covid deaths resulted in huge hoards/lots from lifetime accumulations piling up everywhere. During the pandemic I picked up hundred of pounds of box lots and am still going through everything. I am a worldwide collector with a set of Minkus Global albums that go to the early 2000s, am a Gen X collector so I am a bit nervous that its going to start to get impossible to pick up relatively common worldwide material for my collection because it simply costs too much to shift it.
ReplyDeleteThanks John for your very cogent observation. Sad to think about all those COVID deaths though.
DeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteInteresting topic and thank you for taking the time to share thoughts - many questions but one that comes immediately to mind - it was said .. and I quote …….” As there is little competition from collectors for box lots at a live auction, they typically sell for under 5% of the catalog value and often under 1% of catalog. This partially explains the current glut of country collections offered at incredibly low prices by dealers in both Europe and North America".. end quote.. so my question, do you or does someone have the time to give a few examples of these auctions? where does one find them … for this type of low priced material … and please don't just say SAN. I am generally interested as I have looked and cannot find them. Thank you best wishes and have a philatelic weekend Michael cddstamps
Michael / you might need to contact Ron Leith directly for a reply. Jim Jackson
DeleteThank you. I will try to find him. have a great weekend
Delete