tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post1787444775893060417..comments2024-03-23T04:12:08.762-07:00Comments on Big Blue 1840-1940: The "Orphan" 1920-41 Definitives of BrazilJimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02024632082262694589noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-53734408737627145702013-02-06T06:28:38.324-08:002013-02-06T06:28:38.324-08:00Check out Keijo's spreadsheet- it is well wort...Check out Keijo's spreadsheet- it is well worth it.<br /><br />Thanks Keijo. :-)Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024632082262694589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-27401366946609935702013-02-06T01:21:40.461-08:002013-02-06T01:21:40.461-08:00Very timely discussion, as just last night I worke...Very timely discussion, as just last night I worked out my Brazilian collection including many of these. I agree with Jim - it's all about identifying watermark with these. Any other characteristics have little to no meaning at all. <br /><br />PS. for reference, here's <a href="http://www.stampcollectingblog.com/brazilian-definitive-stamps-vovo-1920-1941.php" rel="nofollow">the article I wrote of these</a> in January 2012. keijohttp://www.stampcollectingblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-49522248405586702582013-02-05T07:14:44.097-08:002013-02-05T07:14:44.097-08:00Thanks for the nice comment. :-)
A couple of thou...Thanks for the nice comment. :-)<br /><br />A couple of thoughts....<br /><br />• When I wrote this post, I was much less experienced with watermarking. When/If I have the time, I will go back and tackle the watermarks again. I realize now that watermarking is the only reliable "gold standard".<br /><br />• The post separated out the issues by denomination and color. I was somewhat successful with color, but now realize that color is not a reliable "gold standard". But as a first approach to the very complicated Brazilian definitives,it is still valid.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024632082262694589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-4652758641533959512013-02-04T18:39:20.623-08:002013-02-04T18:39:20.623-08:00I am just working through my brazilian stamps... I...I am just working through my brazilian stamps... I don't have many thank goodness. This above series has been my nemsis for Brazilian stamps. The quality of the series and many of the earlier stamps from that country I found a little off putting to begin with and then as Jim so excellently presented to us, the miriad of types of this particular issue just tired me out thinking about it.<br /><br />right now I am entering my Brazil/Latin America in to a stock book, so space is not the issue. <br /><br />I have basically managed to sort whant I have using a combination of perf, watermark and colour to figure out where everything fits. I'm finding that watermarks are not the easiest to determine with this issue, but with the perfs and to some extent the colour and face value, I have been able to sort them out. <br /><br />Jim thank you for the fantastic study on this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-77370800060541196272011-09-18T07:03:06.701-07:002011-09-18T07:03:06.701-07:00Thanks Joe.
Your plan and execution look very goo...Thanks Joe.<br /><br />Your plan and execution look very good indeed.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024632082262694589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-70621953529294413712011-09-17T18:50:32.699-07:002011-09-17T18:50:32.699-07:00This was a great resource; I just finished sorting...This was a great resource; I just finished sorting the wheat from the chaff (happy, Bud?). I chose to do the same as Bud and put the first series stamps into the "chosen" spaces. I then inserted a blank page with the others, but I couldn't bring myself to nail every watermark. Some are so obvious and some just aren't. They're watermarked, for sure, but which...<br />I went with obvious watermark, color and perf differences and grouped them by denomination. So I have a fairly full blank page but three empty "chosen" spaces. I'll have to find unwatermarked examples of those.<br />Joetrptjoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17441531041140019043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-64902964209425608902011-04-19T21:20:42.145-07:002011-04-19T21:20:42.145-07:00Bud
I agree- watermarks are the gold standard. I ...Bud<br /><br />I agree- watermarks are the gold standard. I spent the weekend amassing many of the watermarks found on the stamps in a "reference" page. I can now identify specifically many of the 1920-41 definitives. But I must admit, during the first go-around, I was only successful in about 50% of the attempts. The Brazil watermarks-both quantity (11 for the series!),and quality (hard to see in some cases), is quite a bit tougher for me than, for instance, the British Crown Colony or the Australian Kangaroo or King George V series watermarks. I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve. Bud, how do you find the Brazil watermarks for clarity?<br /><br />As for using color to separate collectible stamp "types", clearly it works best with large color differences. As an example, the 200r stamp comes in colors "blue",, "rose-red", and "olive-green". Hard to confuse those. But I've been fooled more than once by a color tint I was quite sure was a particular stamp, and watermarking proved otherwise. :-)<br /><br />But I'm not ready to completely ignore the Scott "designated color" for a particular stamp issue.<br />I was looking over "The Orphanage", and noticed one 200r "aviation" stamp with a nice carmine color. The watermark showed the 5 stars in a squared circle design (Wmk 222); a 1931-34 issue, Scott 334 with the Scott color "deep carmine". :-)<br /><br />Thanks Bud for the elucidating comments about the implications of using the term "chosen" based on presbyterian theology. Very enjoyable and entertaining.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02024632082262694589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6190925726844102948.post-40563954335961774132011-04-17T18:09:08.204-07:002011-04-17T18:09:08.204-07:00A great analytical piece, Jim. My experience is th...A great analytical piece, Jim. My experience is the same as yours: as collections are purchased, the number of the Brazilian pariah definitives, as I’ve thought of them, multiplies. Without trying to collect them, I now have over 100 different. I finally submitted to organization by watermark and let the color variations fend for themselves. Color variations, as in your examples, might result from being soaked too long with other stamps whose dyes infuse, or oxidation, or slight modifications in the chemical make-up of ink from one printing to the next. Moreover, color is a continuous variable, not discrete, as the compilers of Blue seem to think given all of the abstruse color names they’ve concocted. Except for the obvious changes (e.g., blue to yellow), I’ve given up on color variations.<br /><br />My pariah collection is accommodated in a “Big Blue overflow album,” which is a regular Volume I cover with international-type card pages that have Show-guard strips. So their rent district is rather more posh than that of the first run unwatermarked stamps remaining in Blue. Maybe that assuages any implied caste discrimination or separation anxiety they may have. And they’re surrounded by more elite stamps, too – those higher values not in Blue. <br /><br />Now, as to the critical question of what definitive stamps left out by Big Blue should be called (so as to be politically correct and not offend): you suggest “orphan” as opposed to “chosen,” I’ve become accustomed to calling them “Pariahs” as opposed to “Brahmins.” It seems to me that if you call those included in Blue “chosen,” those not included would be the “damned.” This follows, of course, from narrow versions of the Presbyterian theology of double predestination which holds that, primordially, the chosen are elected to heaven and those not chosen are damned to hell by, in this case, Big Blue if not God Almighty. So, I’ve decided to make the outcasts’ hell a little more heaven-like. I hope they’re happy.<br /><br />Any other metaphors occur to your blog readers?<br /><br />-- BudBudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18202098671443782842noreply@blogger.com